Top 5 Best Nemesis Prime / Scourge Transformers Toys
Sunday, June 21st, 2020 10:03PM CDT
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We had a list before by our good friend Megatronus, and he had his own guidelines. Now, not only have 4 years past since, with a bunch of new black Optimus Prime repaints, but I'm opening it up to whichever toy had Nemesis or Scourge in their name. It seems to be the same with others, but I do tend to favour uniqueness when it comes to these repaints. Of course, that's a challenge for repaints, and hence why being ever so slightly unique scores a lot of points. Ok so on with the show!
5. Legends EX Black Convoy (Scourge/Nemesis Prime)
Firstly, the truck mode is a beautiful love letter to the original RID Scourge. And I really like it as an update. While the truck mode looks the part, it gives us a new take on the transformation by having the tanker segment incorporated into the robot mode, which also looks the part. And you can now have an RID Scourge in your classics collection. Of course, this deco works much better for this mold than the original release's red and blue Optimus Prime colour scheme but I even think this mold works better as Scourge than it does Octane, with those pop up antennas working much better on an Optimus style head. This, along with the various ways to position the shoulder pylons and wings adds to the versatility of the look to distinguish this from Titans Return Optimus or any other generations voyager Optimus figure. In the end, this toy looks the part, with the deco being a labour of love to the original, and has an interesting transformation. The plane serves as an extra and you can choose to ignore it without it detracting in any way.
4. Transformers Go! Hunter Nemesis Prime
Another toy which works much better in this particular deco. For some reason, the Hasbro version of the Optimus deco went for a greenish theme and gave him such an odd smiling headsculpt. But here we get that awesome black with teal highlights and red windows deco and a bad ass headsculpt. This toy's proportions works really well with the idea of Nemesis Prime being an intimidating threat and the wings and shoulders give you options as to how to present him on your shelf. He works really well in truck mode too with those extra teeth/spikes in the front giving him that extra murderous edge.
3. Transformers Robots In Disguise Scourge (Black Convoy)
This is basically G1 Nemesis. Well, G2, but you know what I mean, he's the original. And this is the toy that influenced the idea of Nemesis Prime we have in our collective minds (for the most part). Not only do we get the previously mentioned deco, but we also get the fact that this Prime looking figure is not the same as Optimus Prime since in that same line, Optimus had a very different look. Along with the toy's bigger stature, this sets a precedent for Nemesis needing to distinguish himself from Optimus and being imposing. Hence why I always favour Nemesis Primes that have a more unique look like different details, different molding, variation in presentation, rather than the straight up black Primes we get in the MP line.
2. Power of the Primes Nemesis Prime
If not for how unique Number 1 is as a concept, this one would take the cake. He is basically the ultimate Nemesis Prime figure. Not only do we get a very different and bad ass head sculpt for the leader class robot, but we get a different headsculpt for the smaller Optimus figure too. Plus we get a weapon that turns into a bird, reminiscent of the arms mircon line, a red sword homaging the multitude of red weapons Nemesis Prime toys got throughout the years and arm cannons from the Armada Nemesis Prime. So you get two toys in one encompassing many versions of Nemesis Prime with a bunch of new exclusive weapons made just for this toy. It was sold in a much bigger box than any leader class toy we've ever seen in the generations line and yet was still sold at the leader price point, which was a really cool surprise.
1. Transformers Universe Nemesis Prime
This Big Convoy redeco is a beast! I am still so amazed that this is how Hasbro chose to release the mold in the west. We finally got an incredibly fun toy, but in an excellent deco. Between the viking-esque horns, massive gun, and blood red matrix, this surprisingly well articulated recycle of the older Beast Wares Neo figure is the perfect vessel for a bad as bones Nemesis.
Speaking of which, he gets major points for the PG13 blood on those horns, which look evil as all heck. You don't want to be caught out alone on the icy tundra, that's for sure!
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Posted by Sabrblade on June 21st, 2020 @ 10:17pm CDT
But Car Robots Black Convoy still holds the #1 spot for me as far as Black Convoy/Nemesis Prime is concerned. Such a gorgeous deco on such an exquisite mold.
Also, I gotta give a shout-out to the two progenitors of the "black evil Optimus doppelganger" concept: Onyx Primal and Copy Convoy.
Posted by MeGrimlock78 on June 21st, 2020 @ 10:44pm CDT
Posted by PerfectVision on June 22nd, 2020 @ 1:06am CDT
Posted by Rodimus Prime on June 22nd, 2020 @ 2:27am CDT
5. Nucleon Quest Optimus Prime
4. Legends EX Black Convoy
3. PoTP Nemesis Prime
2. Car Robots Black Convoy
1. MP-10B
Honorable mention: Armada Nemesis Prime
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on June 22nd, 2020 @ 4:18am CDT
Seriously Will, why didn't these get even a mention?
Nucleon Quest Super Convoy might displace another of those listed in my book. He would at least get an honorable mention.
Posted by ausbot on June 22nd, 2020 @ 5:40am CDT
Posted by Sabrblade on June 22nd, 2020 @ 8:09am CDT
Posted by megatronus on June 22nd, 2020 @ 8:25am CDT
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I would push RiD Scourge to the top slot, and toss one of the other slots for a tie between these two:
Seriously Will, why didn't these get even a mention?
Nucleon Quest Super Convoy might displace another of those listed in my book. He would at least get an honorable mention.
None of these are Nemesis Primes.
Posted by Nathaniel Prime on June 22nd, 2020 @ 10:00am CDT
5) POTP Nemesis Prime
4) Legends EX Black Convoy
3) Masterpiece MP10-B
2) Universe Nemesis Mammoth
1) RID Scourge
Posted by TulioDude on June 22nd, 2020 @ 10:34am CDT
Ihe Power of the Primes toy has the best look in vehicle mode,since there is the robot parts in the trailer blend in more than normal.
Shout-out to Armada for giving us the Nemesis Prime name.
Day 174 of waiting for Transformers Armada Masterpiece news.
Posted by Sabrblade on June 22nd, 2020 @ 11:04am CDT
A shout-out to all of those who pioneered the Nemesis Prime concept.TulioDude wrote:Shout-out to Armada for giving us the Nemesis Prime name.
Beast Wars Onyx Primal: The first evil back Optimus doppelganger
Beast Wars II Copy Convoy: The first one to appear in animation
Car Robots Black Convoy: The first one to give us the Japanese name "Black Convoy" and the first (and only) one to have a major role in animation
Armada Nemesis Prime: The first one to give us the English name "Nemesis Prime" and the first to be Unicronian in origin
Alternators Nemesis Prime/Binaltech Black Convoy: The first one to mesh the English "Nemesis Prime" and Japanese "Black Convoy" names together into referring to the same concept, which has mostly become the standard to this day
Posted by no-one on June 22nd, 2020 @ 11:05am CDT
2. Siege Nemesis Prime
3. Legends Black Convoy
4. T30 Nemesis Prime "a pocket full of evil"
I've always dug this mold and it's IDW stylings.
5. TF Prime Arms Micron Nemesis Prime
I know this Nemesis was just a human controlled robot, but he was a formidable opponent and I feel that still fits the bill. It's a mold that doesn't get a lot of love, but I still feel that it's great.
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 22nd, 2020 @ 12:35pm CDT
I actually took apart the Japanese G2 Black Convoy and put laser rod Prime's electronics in there to recreate the effect. He was actually remolded to make this stupidly difficult.
Posted by ZeroWolf on June 22nd, 2020 @ 2:14pm CDT
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on June 22nd, 2020 @ 5:49pm CDT
Fair point.. I got confused by the thread title, because Will didn't start a new thread even though a Nemesis Prime-specific list isn't a straight update of the list that started this thread.megatronus wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I would push RiD Scourge to the top slot, and toss one of the other slots for a tie between these two:
Seriously Will, why didn't these get even a mention?
Nucleon Quest Super Convoy might displace another of those listed in my book. He would at least get an honorable mention.
None of these are Nemesis Primes.
Posted by RacerCheetor on June 22nd, 2020 @ 7:58pm CDT
I would have exchanged positions 5 and 2, the LG-EX is an excellent remastered mold of Scourge.
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on June 22nd, 2020 @ 8:07pm CDT
Eh. It's cool and all, but it's still an undersize imitation that's missing features.RacerCheetor wrote:It's great that a Beast Wars mold is the first.
I would have exchanged positions 5 and 2, the LG-EX is an excellent remastered mold of Scourge.
Posted by adamage1 on June 22nd, 2020 @ 8:13pm CDT
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on June 22nd, 2020 @ 8:57pm CDT
MP-10B is alright, but he's just "MP-10 in the color scheme" so LGEX Black Convoy edges ahead of him.
Posted by william-james88 on June 22nd, 2020 @ 9:21pm CDT
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:MP-10B is alright, but he's just "MP-10 in the color scheme" so LGEX Black Convoy edges ahead of him.
Yeah, that's what I felt. It's also what I feel about the movie molds you presented earlier. The movie toy I was contemplating though was this one since while it happens to be the best version (deco wise) of a good mold, it's also a representation of an actual movie verse Nemesis Prime.
But yeah not a fan of simple redecos of G1 Primes being given a Nemesis/Scourge paint job since Nemesis/Scourge never was G1 prime in black and teal until it became the defacto lazy redeco. And you can tell it doesn't work since without extra parts like tall shoulders or the like, you have less areas to give teal highlights.
By comparison, we can look at the examples I used like the one from Universe or Transformers Go where the designers had fun seeing how they could use that teal and make the colour scheme more unique rather than just a black Prime.
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on June 22nd, 2020 @ 9:45pm CDT
I felt they were at least deserving of a mention because ROTF Black Optimus eschews the typical black-with-teal-accents colors, and the DotM one is more traditional but IMO wears the teal particularly well because it's used for the flames plus he has the Jetwing parts for extra flare.
But they aren't Nemesis Primes anyway, so never mind.
Posted by Sabrblade on June 22nd, 2020 @ 9:45pm CDT
Yeah, and fictional-speaking (for Japanese fiction, specifically), the first Nemesis Prime/Black Convoy to appear in G1 fiction was the Binaltech version, who had that toy's pickup truck body before Optimus got one of his own in his colors.william-james88 wrote:But yeah not a fan of simple redecos of G1 Primes being given a Nemesis/Scourge paint job since Nemesis/Scourge never was G1 prime in black and teal until it became the defacto lazy redeco.
Posted by william-james88 on June 22nd, 2020 @ 10:02pm CDT
Sabrblade wrote:Yeah, and fictional-speaking (for Japanese fiction, specifically), the first Nemesis Prime/Black Convoy to appear in G1 fiction was the Binaltech version, who had that toy's pickup truck body before Optimus got one of his own in his colors.william-james88 wrote:But yeah not a fan of simple redecos of G1 Primes being given a Nemesis/Scourge paint job since Nemesis/Scourge never was G1 prime in black and teal until it became the defacto lazy redeco.
Yeah I knew of that, hence why I mentioned the shoulders. It's kind of fun how, be it coincidence or not, shoulder kibble with teal highlights is a prominant feature of the character's initial toys and fictional appearances.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Well, I brought up those two Primes more thinking of the thread title rather than the Nemesis Prime focus of your list anyway.
I felt they were at least deserving of a mention because ROTF Black Optimus eschews the typical black-with-teal-accents colors, and the DotM one is more traditional but IMO wears the teal particularly well because it's used for the flames plus he has the Jetwing parts for extra flare.
But they aren't Nemesis Primes anyway, so never mind.
No worries. And yeah, I agree on both counts, hence why I am glad the DotM version is highlighted in Megatronus' original article.
Posted by Sabrblade on June 22nd, 2020 @ 10:16pm CDT
Posted by adamage1 on June 23rd, 2020 @ 3:24pm CDT
william-james88 wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:MP-10B is alright, but he's just "MP-10 in the color scheme" so LGEX Black Convoy edges ahead of him.
But yeah not a fan of simple redecos of G1 Primes being given a Nemesis/Scourge paint job since Nemesis/Scourge never was G1 prime in black and teal until it became the defacto lazy redeco.
Nemesis Prime is literally a clone of Optimus (it even says so in the bio: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Nemesis_Prime_(G1)), so of course it makes sense for him to be color palette-swapped.
Posted by Tuned Agent on June 23rd, 2020 @ 6:24pm CDT
carytheone wrote:5. TF Prime Arms Micron Nemesis Prime
I know this Nemesis was just a human controlled robot, but he was a formidable opponent and I feel that still fits the bill. It's a mold that doesn't get a lot of love, but I still feel that it's great.
While this deco wouldn't make the list for me, it's nice to see that mold get a shoutout. Awesome figure.
Posted by YRQRM0 on June 24th, 2020 @ 10:44am CDT
Posted by william-james88 on June 24th, 2020 @ 1:02pm CDT
adamage1 wrote:william-james88 wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:MP-10B is alright, but he's just "MP-10 in the color scheme" so LGEX Black Convoy edges ahead of him.
But yeah not a fan of simple redecos of G1 Primes being given a Nemesis/Scourge paint job since Nemesis/Scourge never was G1 prime in black and teal until it became the defacto lazy redeco.
Nemesis Prime is literally a clone of Optimus (it even says so in the bio: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Nemesis_Prime_(G1)), so of course it makes sense for him to be color palette-swapped.
But not of the G1 Optimus Prime body from the sunbow cartoons, at least not initially, that's the whole point.
Here is the pic the TF wiki uses for Nemesis:
As you'll see, that ain't G1 sunbow prime in black colours.
So toys like MP 10 B are just a straight Optimus redeco homaging a Scourge colour scheme and nothing more. Sometimes it works but often times it's boring AF bringing nothing interesting to the table.
Posted by Sabrblade on June 24th, 2020 @ 1:09pm CDT
And which would not contradict or interfere with the Binaltech version's story since Binaltech splintered off from JG1 into its own separate timeline from that of the main JG1 one.
Posted by william-james88 on June 24th, 2020 @ 5:32pm CDT
YRQRM0 wrote:Armada Nemesis should have made it, specifically the Takara version.
Both he and the Arms Micron toy mentioned above are there in spirit with the POTP mold which homages them both.
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on June 26th, 2020 @ 7:25pm CDT
Posted by Sabrblade on June 29th, 2020 @ 11:27pm CDT
Back in January, I had acquired this toy, Platinum Edition "Year of the Goat" Optimus Prime:
I acquired this toy because I was inspired by another user on another board who decided to use this toy to represent a ghost version of Optimus Prime, which he wanted to go with his Masterpiece Ghostbusters Optimus toy so that it could be a ghost for that Optimus to hunt. He has done something similar with other translucent TF toys, using them as more ghosts for his Ghostbusters MP Prime.
This idea of his inspired me to pick this toy up and do something similar with it. Though, while he uses it as a ghost of Optimus, I have instead repurposed it as the ghost of another character, one more relevant to this thread.
RiD 2001 Scourge (a.k.a Car Robots Black Convoy).
Especially with the silver chrome trailer, this figure just reads more as Scourge than as Optimus to me, and I am grateful that there was no name printed anywhere on this figure.
The prospect of this figure being Scourge as a ghost also just sounds more interesting to me than it being just another Optimus toy, as I had zero interest in using this toy as Optimus.
As for the nature of this Ghost Scourge character, I envision him as something like DC's Spectre or Marvel's Ghost Rider, a spirit of divine vengeance who, after his premature demise, was given a second chance by Primus to serve as as a sort of Cybertronian Grim Reaper embodying Primus's divine wrath and judgement.
His Autobot symbols being a hybrid of the traditional one and the Year of the Goat Kanji work with this idea in that they look more like defaced/scarred/distorted versions of the normal Autobot symbol, as though Primus had attempted to return Scourge to his originally-intended faction (as he was born from a Autobot protoform that had been turned evil by Predacon spark energy) but, as a consequence of some of Scourge's personality refusing to fully return to the side of good, his insignia came out twisted and misshapen, as a sign of Scourge's unwillingness to shed all of his evil nature, meeting Primus halfway in a compromise that makes him a neutrally-aligned figure, willing to declare judgement on Autobot and Predacon alike.
Anyone wanting to use this idea can feel free to come up with their own backstory as to how and why Scourge died, but my personal backstory for this guy is that he is specifically the Scourge from the OTFCC 2004 "Shell Game" universe, who, according to Ask Vector Prime, was turned into the mindless monster Toxitron by Megazarak. The reasons I chose to make him specifically the ghost of "Shell Game" Scourge/Toxitron instead of just the ghost of the normal RiD cartoon Scourge are:
- Around the time I got this figure, I had also acquired an OTFCC 2004 Megazarak of my own and got to thinking more about the larger story of "Shell Game" that AVP added on to it, and liked the idea of the Scourge who was turned into Toxitron getting his long overdue revenge on Megazarak in the end (see more about this further down).
- I also wanted a way that I could have this figure and my Car Robots Black Convoy figure (who would represent the normal cartoon version of Scourge) fight each other as separate individuals coexisting at the same time as each other, and without the ghost being some future version who travels back in time to fight his living self, thus dooming his own existence if he kills his living self before his time. This way, it's two distinct versions of the same guy fighting each other with no danger of paradoxes.
After dying a dog's death, this Scourge's spark was spared by Primus, who took pity on the tortured soul after his having suffered so much in his painful existence as Toxitron. With his spark's exposure first to Megatron's Predacon spark power and then to Tox-En, Scourge's spark had mutated beyond recognition, with only Primus's divine touch able to cleanse it and finally give Scourge some sense of peace.
However, Scourge was not ready to die and insisted that his business in life remained unfinished. Having already taken pity on Scourge and sensing a strong will within him, Primus gave Scourge the choice of becoming his angel of vengeance, which would allow him to settle his score with Megazarak (whom Primus had also taken notice of), but at the cost of shedding his evil ways and serving Primus himself. Though Scourge loathed the thought of becoming a "good guy", he begrudgingly accepted since he really wanted to pay back Megazarak. Primus allowed some of Scourge's personality to remain intact, as illustrated by the distorted versions of the Autobrand he wore. But as he was no longer fully corporeal, he also had to give up his ambitions of conquest and domination.
Though, he would get to live a new "life" in which he could go on killing and torturing certain people for all eternity, which he enjoyed. Particularly, getting to torment Megazarak for all time, following his defeat at the hands of the Autobot Defensor, sounded wonderful to Scourge. And now, he spends his existence striking down those whose time is up and who have lived lives so wicked and malicious that they deserve only the worst sentences of all, by the Scourge of Primus.
For those who prefer the Car Robots version of the character, an idea for a Japanese name of this form would be "Shadow Convoy".
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on June 30th, 2020 @ 12:53am CDT